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lowkeyed |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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I am using 2 separate battery packs. One for each. I thoght about doing it the other way(2 motors one receiver) but I do not think 1 pack will drive both 180's to their full potential.
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TimberBunny |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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2 130s, yes. 2 180s, maybe not. Keep doing it your way if you like then.
Segmented Crawler: Under Construction. Beach Buggy: Queued. Iron Cheetah: Queued. |
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Jshwaa |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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Wire them in parallel. You will be putting double the load on your FET's, which will definitely require an upgrade, but running 2 main boards seems kind of hillbilly to me.....but that's just me. I stay away from the afro-engineering. The series motor idea will not work well, as you will be dividing the voltage among 2 motors, which will make them both run at half the speed as one single motor. You will need double the voltage to make 2 series motors go as fast.
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TimberBunny |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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I knew i'd say that wrong. I meant parallel, lol. Jshwaa's correct, as usual.
Segmented Crawler: Under Construction. Beach Buggy: Queued. Iron Cheetah: Queued. |
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Jshwaa |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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That's right. Otherwise this thread would be called, Just ask TimburBunny.
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billywilly92 |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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I already made a post about this but not many people have answered so now I'll ask you. I put a v2 board, lithium batteries, and tight turns in my car. After all of that the servo centers but turns left when I turn on the controller. What is the problem?
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Jshwaa |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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Hmm...The servo centers, and stays centered until you turn the controller on? That's different.
I have seen where when you turn the car on, the steering immediately goes one way, but never in response to the controller being turned on. I'm inclined to think you have a problem with your remote, but you didn't change anything with your remote......just your car. Sounds to me that you have a fried steering FET, or a fried steering FET driver(transistor). Finding out exactly what's wrong would take a multimeter or an oscilloscope. You would have to probe the input and output of each driver transistor, and observe that there is a signal going in at the base and coming out at the collector. If there's a transistor that has a square wave going in at the base, but nothing coming out at the collector, then you have found your problem. Your steering H-bridge is much like the H-bridge for the main motor. Here's a schematic of the gen 1 motor h-bridge. ![]() Check the two transistors that are the equivelant of Q6 and Q7, in your steering H-bridge. I don't have one of those boards handy, so I can't consult you on which ones those are, but if you look at Q6 and Q7 on the motor H-bridge, and then flip it over and look at the steering H-bridge, there will be transistors exactly like Q6 and Q7 in that vicinity, doing exactly what Q6 and Q7 do(drive the P-channels). This ought to get you started if you're even serious about fixing it. *Update* Below is a pic of the Gen 1 main board. ![]() The two tiny black things I'm pointing out are the driver transistors. Each of them has 3 pins; a base, a collector, and an emitter. When the command is given to turn the servo, the base will receive pulses, and the pulses will be inverted at the collector. The emitter is tied to ground. So a test would be to take your meter and put the black on ground, and the red on one of the pins, as you turn the steering, and see if the voltage is varying. With the steering, it will be brief, because your servo motor responds fast and doesn't have to move much to reach where you're wanting it to go. So you'll have to be constant with the right and left commands while probing the pins of those transistors. Two of the pins should be toggling, while one of them will constantly have 0V. If you find that one of the transistors has only one pin that varies in voltage, and two of the pins have a constant voltage, then you have found your bad transistor. Repairing it is possible, if you have a bad board laying around. Good luck. |
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FireDemonSiC |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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This isn't exactly a tech related question, but the thread was titled "Ask Jshwaa", so I figured I'd ask.
Are you the same Jwshaa I beat on ebay tonight for Li-Ion pack? LOL! I could have sworn I saw that name before when I was watching the bids.. |
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Jshwaa |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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Nope, sorry. Haven't done an ebay purchase for a little while, and it wasn't for cells.
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wizard0ne0 |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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what are the pluses and minuses of the following?
FAT commutators (silver and copper) open vs closed endball (bearing and non bearing) magnets (neodymium isotropic ferrite) armature (normal spiral and slotted) brushes (quick change and traditional) brush material (carbon steel silver copper) armature wire (# of turns and guage) |
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js420 |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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Fat commutators allow for more surface area for the current to pass through. This allows a better connection and less resistance. The only downside would be a touch more weight on the armature and a touch more friction from the brushes. Both should be fairly negligible, though.
As for silver vs copper vs carbon, etc, I'm not sure on the specifics of each, but each has a relative conductivity, hardness, and price. For example, copper conducts well and is fairly cheap, but is soft, so it will wear much faster. Silver has a higher conductivity and is harder, but is also more expensive. Open endball offers more ventilation to the brushes and thus hopefully keeps them cooler. Since there is some resistance in the brushes and commutator, there is also heat generated there. Open endball, however, allows more dirt and the like to enter the can if it's not protected. The stronger the magnets, the stronger the pull towards the like poles, but also the harder it is to pull away from them. A motor works by flipping the magnetic polarity of the armature segments in sync with the rotation of the armature, so as always to attract them to the next magnet along the can. The stronger the magnets, the faster it will be attracted along. However, if your magnet is too strong, then once the armature section turns to the position of the magnet, it will "stick' there and not retain enough momentum to move slightly past it, flip polarity and start attracting the next magnet. In short, stronger is better, but after a point it can start to hamper instead of help. Slotted armature is to help with weight. The lighter the armature, the faster it will spin. It also can help with heatsinking. The spiral armatures are designed so that the magnetic attraction is smoother as it passes around the can. Instead of one big bar that's constantly being jerked from magnet to magnet, it's now a gradual horizontal spiral. In theory, it provides a smoother rotation. Quick change brushes are just that. You can change them without having to remove the motor and end bell. You'll pay more for them, though. Brush material is different for the same reason I mentioned above. Different matierals have different conductivity (the higher the conductivity, the less resistance so the less power lost and less heat generated) and also different hardnesses. The higher the number of turns, the less current your motor will draw and the slower it will rotate, but the more torque it will have, which is why crawlers use very high turn motors. The more turns, the faster and more current required. The gauge of wire need only be large enough to adequately handle the current you're drawing. You could always use a large gauge, but since the wire adds significant weight, the larger the gauge, the slower it will rotate. Generally, you should decide what top speed you want (at the expense of torque) and base your # of turns on that. Then choose the smallest gauge of wire that can adequately handle that current. Keep in mind, you can't disregard torque. If you do a very very low turn motor, it may go incredibly fast once it's going, but it might not have enough torque to even start from a stand-still, as the friction is much higher when the car is stopped than when it is already moving. |
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wizard0ne0 |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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so neo mags with a low turn motor like a 25 turn on a spiral armature along with silver FAT commutators and brushes would be a really good motor if you had the FETs to handle it correct? I currently have 3xmods one gen 1 one evo and 1 truck, all with 2*3 FETs would this handle the motor? i am running 850mah rechargeable batteries in stock 4.8 volt configuration, what would runtime look like? with the truck i would probably have 35 turns or so.
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js420 |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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25 turns is very low. Even 30 is low. You might have a nice high top speed but you'll have very little torque and thus not much pickup off the line.
Also, you not only have to have the FETs to handle it (I'm not sure if 2*3 would handle 25 turns or not, as I've never looked into one...), you also have to have the batteries to handle it, that's a lot of sustained current draw. Your runtime will be quite short. Since you're running 4 NiMH's, you're already losing out on >1V compared to alkalines. You would probably get much more benefit from upgrading to a set of LiPo's than you would from a motor change. |
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wizard0ne0 |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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thanks for the information, i am currently having my cars worked on and the guy that is doing it is putting 33 turns on both of my cars and a 35 turn on my truck. Does wire gauge effect torque at all?
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js420 |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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Wire gauge might slightly affect torque, but will have a larger effect on top speed. The higher the gauge, the more weight you have to turn around and at 10,000 or 20,000 RPM, a tiny bit of weight means a lot more effort.
I'm not that experienced with motor making, but I gather it's as much of an art as a science. Take something that you think should work and put it together. Measure it and run it and see how it performs. Then tweak it as desired to tune it. |
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wizard0ne0 |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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i am having some motors wound for my three xmods as well as 2x3 fets, it is 33 turns for my gen 1 in a open end ball bearing can 33 turns in my evo with the second best motor can that was in the stockpile that i gave him (20+ motors collected over the years) and a 35 turn in my truck with the third best can.
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wizard0ne0 |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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i got my xmods back and they are for some reason or other "pulsing" while i try to drive them, it is extremely hard to react to something when you do not know when the car will react to your inputs!
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Jshwaa |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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Thanks, js420, for keeping up on this thread for me. I've been away and haven't owned another xmod since my fire. I got a nano dragon now......which is broke down...but anyway...
I like your insight on motors. Pretty good stuff. I only have one little thing I'd like to add about the weight of the armature and wiring.... A lighter armature and thinner guage wiring will not necessarily allow the armature to spin faster. The mass of the armature will only affect the acceleration response. So a lighter armature will have a quicker reaction time to changing speeds, but once you reach a speed and hold it there, theoretically there is no inertia on the armature, thus the speed has no effect, other than centrifugal force, and centrifugal force can be dealt with by tight winding and putting a laquer on the windings as kind of like a glue. The best setup I had was a 2x2 li-po(series parallel), a 2x2 FET stack with a heat sink, and an 18 turn plasmatomic. It was super quick. With any setup, ideally you should have the motor be the weak link. In other words, don't make your motor so hot that it burns out your FET's. Develope a FET/cell combination that will burn out your motor. Motors are relatively easy and cheap to replace compared to lipos and FET stacks. I found that your brushes and commutator windings will be the most of your maintenance, if you have a well balanced(hot) tuner. |
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js420 |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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True, it will have much more effect on acceleration than top speed I guess. But that's theoretically and only if the armature is perfectly balanced. If there's any imbalance, which there always is, however small, then the more weight you have, the more vibration you'll generate and the more friction, less top speed, etc.
No worries for keepin it up. The more you try and help other people, the more you learn yourself =) Or at least make it harder to forget what you already know... |
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wizard0ne0 |
Re: Just ask Jshwaa. | ||
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Could somebody tell me whether a range repair kit would resolve the pulsing, I also saw somewhere that you could remove one of the resistors to improve range? r22 i beilieve it said
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